Forum:Breaking up History sections
__NOWYSIWYG__ As you can see on articles such as Aqualad and Robin, the history sections are getting huge, and even then, they're both incomplete. And with season two around the corner, they're only going to get longer. I'm all for the extensive history sections, and I don't want to split it up into another page, but what I would like is a way to break it up with level 3 subheadings, because editing it is becoming a nightmare. I think breaking it up into months has the potential to work. Does anyone have any other ideas? 02:49, April 21, 2012 (UTC) :Absolutely. ― Thailog 02:53, April 21, 2012 (UTC) : We will be adding years to it right? Because season two will be taking place in the year following. (Example: June 2010, January 2011) -- [[User:lLight|''l]][[User talk:lLight|Light☆'']] 03:42, April 21, 2012 (UTC) ::Months should work. Yeah, it's a concern I've been having. It's impossible to keep track of on bigger pages. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']] (talk|wall) 07:10, April 21, 2012 (UTC) Yes. Add months to it. Breaking up by year is too unwieldy, and by episode too arbitrary. Zergrinch 07:34, April 21, 2012 (UTC) :Just to add on to this, I've made the appropriate changes to Justice League as a test. Any objections before we continue? 12:08, April 24, 2012 (UTC) Back when the show first started I sperated the present day scenes in a "Present" heading which wasn't discussed (possibly because of how early it was), but wasn't objected to and was in fact continued on to other pages as well, which I'm greatful for. Now, the reason I chose "Present" over "Season one" was because 1. There was only two episodes and I don't think a 2nd season had even been spoken of and 2. I thought it would be more acceptable to have an in-universe heading than an out of universe heading. Is that correct? I think adding months may be overkill especially if season two (or further potential seasons) were to cover 12 months, that would be 12 subheadings for 1 year. So I'd pick either just the year or the season. Also, how would you treat the years before 2010? -- Anythingspossibleforapossible 15:17, April 24, 2012 (UTC) :It wasn't discussed because at the time, it worked. But now the content is spilling out of the heading, we need to make changes. In universe headings are preferred, which is why years and dates were chosen. Any pre-2010 information without a specific date is put in "Early life". 22:31, April 24, 2012 (UTC) ::I realised that. You answered the last part about before 2010, but you didn't address my concerns on the possibly that too many months might be overkill. It could also be broken down into main storylines. I pick years over seasons, btw. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible 00:25, April 25, 2012 (UTC) :::Oops, sorry, I missed that! Months definitely could be overkill in some cases. I'm not sure how we can define whether it's necessary to have it or not. 04:17, April 25, 2012 (UTC) About the Justice League page, I'm not sure on making a separate header for years. On Artemis and Kid Flash, I included them in the month, and I think it looks better. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|''217]] 06:31, April 25, 2012 (UTC) :Even that looks like overkill. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible 12:14, April 25, 2012 (UTC) :: If the length of the section is the problem, can't we just hide the content, as if it were a spoiler tag? I created an example in Aqualad's page here. I do not think I did it right, but I think you all can understand what I was trying to do. There does not seem to be a template for "hidden", though. -- [[User:lLight|l'']][[User talk:lLight|Light''☆]] 17:39, April 26, 2012 (UTC) :Collapsible could work on bigger pages; not sure how it looks on one-shot characters. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|217]] 17:54, April 26, 2012 (UTC) Temperate seasons Maybe this is silly, but what about splitting it into Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter below each year? It still breaks it down enough, but doesn't over do it. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible 17:46, April 26, 2012 (UTC) :I prefer months at the moment, but this is an option we could consider. It's maybe more esthetically pleasing for characters that haven't appeared often, as it preserves a sense of continuity by mentioning Summer and Autumn back to back, instead of only, say, July and November. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|217]] 17:54, April 26, 2012 (UTC) ::I prefer months to seasons, and seasons to collapsible tables. I'd be more willing to break longs pages into separate ones than hiding content. ― 'Thailog' 17:57, April 26, 2012 (UTC) Size Another matter is size. See Robin; I think four ='s ( July ) is way too small for a header; it's barely noticable with the timestamps. Maybe we should get rid of "Present" and keep the months in three ='s? If not, we should at least have a line under them or something, because they're not really sections this way. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|217]] 14:29, April 27, 2012 (UTC) :Yeah, get rid of present. However, leave "Early life", as that can detail all events prior to the series without a fixed date. The months can be on the same level as "Early life" then. 22:57, April 27, 2012 (UTC) ::On a related note, "early life" sounds misleading as we are applying a "before Independence Day" criteria to it. If we are promoting the months, I suggest renaming the early life section to "Pre-June 2010" or similar. Zergrinch 01:21, April 28, 2012 (UTC) :::Good suggestion. Fine with me. Though is the hyphen necessary? 01:33, April 28, 2012 (UTC) ::::I don't get the confusion of an "Early life" section. For Robin it would before "Independence Day", and for Artemis it would be before "Infiltrator", but it may not fit when we include comic info which I believe we've only just started to add, so yeah I guess it's ok. I think the hyphen works. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible 03:52, April 28, 2012 (UTC) ::::The reason I will claim confusion, is that when I see "early life", I will always assume what events happened between the ages of, say, 0 to 6. Since we are going by month and year timestamps, I would prefer a section that says "Pre-July 2010", "Pre-Independence Day", "Pre-Episode 1", or whatever floats our boats. Zergrinch 04:00, April 28, 2012 (UTC) :::::"Early life" sounds better, it's self explainatory. When I see "early life" I automatically think pre-Independence Day or whatever a character was doing before his/her episode or comic introduction. But this works better without the inclusion of comic events so I'm just going to agree to avoid any potential conflict. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible 05:15, April 28, 2012 (UTC) ::::::It may sound better on a page like Robin, but for Kent Nelson, it makes no sense - it's not just early life, it's late life as well. I think Pre-July 2010 is best because the others are out-of-universe. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|217]] 07:02, April 28, 2012 (UTC) :::::A possible compromise is to use the term "Background". It's not as terribly specific as "Early life", and when used in conversation, someone's "background" does pertain to everything they did before you met them. Of course, "Pre-July 2010" fits better with our new section dividers, so... Zergrinch 07:22, April 28, 2012 (UTC) ::::::When I think of "background", I think of a production point of view. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible 00:52, April 29, 2012 (UTC) Modification, concerning Invasion * Early life, Pre-July 2010, or whatever we're going to call it. * All the months, July 2010-Jan 2011 * The five year gap (kinda like the Early life section, but for bridge events) * Jan 2016 etc. Though I think for navigation purposes, a quick link to the 2016 section would be handy. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|217]] 18:55, April 28, 2012 (UTC) :These are sensible sub-head groupings. Not sure about wording of them. -- Supermorff (talk) 09:06, April 29, 2012 (UTC) ::The problem is, when you want to go to Robin's 2016 Nightwing explanation, you're going to have to wade through a lot of season one info. We could do a TOC, a collapsible history section, or a box that says "to go to the events of Invasion, click here", with a # link to the Five Year Gap section. Last thing we need is history sections as unwieldingly big as Wookieepedia. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|217]] 09:55, April 29, 2012 (UTC) :::Not a fan of collapsible tables, or splitting the info into multiple articles. I think the month-sections should suffice for now. 10:17, April 29, 2012 (UTC) ::::We could probably do with just the years, even for big characters. That way, it looks in the ToC, and still easy enough to navigate. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|217]] 18:52, April 29, 2012 (UTC) :::I think we should split it into multiple articles. Everything that Dick did as Robin should remain in "Robin" (since flashbacks are pretty much a given). Everything he does as "Nightwing" should go into a new and separate "Nightwing" page. Zergrinch 11:20, April 29, 2012 (UTC) ::::Bad example, as we've more or less agreed that Robin will be moved to Nightwing, and Tim gets the Robin page. --'[[User:Tupka217|Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|217'']] 11:22, April 29, 2012 (UTC)